I came from Jamaica in 1962
>> and there was hostile environment when
we came here. The BNP and the NF was on
the street
>> with their flags riding through our
community and breaking windows and
smashing up everything. They went
through so tall and Louis
>> but we made a success of it. You know we
from the Windr Rush you know we came on
the SS Wind Rush which was a big boat.
It wasn't a small boat and um you know
we just kept our head down and just
work. I myself worked for 49 years never
been on any benefits and um to reward us
they've built a square for us called
Windrush Square in Brixton.
>> Yes.
>> And they even named a a a railway line
and a tube line called the Windrush
line. So that is a success we've made.
So if you give these poor souls a chance
who come on the small boat boat,
>> I think they could, you know, make a
success of it. Just give them a chance.
Think, you know.
>> Yeah, I I I hear you, Leroy. It's And
it's a shame that people don't learn.
That's the thing because I was I was
actually talking to my producer earlier.
We were talking about how riots and and
protests of this nature have always
occurred. And I was saying I remember
them affecting my family back in the
1980s and and how terrified that made me
as a child and I definitely wasn't the
only one. And this inability be to
distinguish between an asylum seeker or
a refugee and an illegal immigrant and
just anybody who's not white um or or
you know has a British accent or or
whatever it might be. It all ends up
getting meshed together and it does
create, as you quite rightly describe
it, a hostile environment. I mean, what
will it take, do you think, for us not
to have to go through this every time?
>> Well, well, Natasha, I tell you that,
you know, I came with a British, I came
here as British citizen
>> because Jamaica wasn't independent when
I came here.
>> Yeah.
>> I came with my pound, shillings, and
pence. I'm as British as they come. If I
walk down the street now, I'm just
painted as an asylum seeker because of
my color, you know, which is, you know,
it's disgraceful because uh what I'm
seeing on the street now,
>> it is very hostile and it's raised this
ugly head again and it's terrifying,
you know.
>> Yeah, I do. And does it affect you
still?
>> It still affect me because um you know,
I cannot walk down there alone and
things like that. Uh I'm looked upon as
you know maybe one of those off the
boats
>> you know so I say give them a chance.
>> Yeah
>> give their working age. Give them a
chance. Give them their work permit and
they will make a success.
Starma
should enable all the things that Farage
has said get out of the EHSC
and all immigrants and uh not legal.
>> Do you mean the EC the European Court of
Human Rights?
>> Yeah. Yeah. But all all the people
coming on the boat, whether they want to
be economic immigrants or um asylum
seekers or whatever you want, not one of
them allowed to be here and get five
planes a day taking them off to
somewhere, maybe somewhere that they
don't want to be, but getting them out
of the country because they're a big
economic drain on the country. We've got
loads of potholes around here.
>> Okay. Uh just a a few a few questions.
Okay. So, who do you think is going to
agree to house our unwanted refugees?
Which country?
>> Um maybe Afghanistan or North Korea or
Vietnam or anywhere.
>> Why Why would we send refugees who are
escaping persecution to places with high
rates of persecution?
No, there there's no persecution in
Afghanistan or North Korea surely or
Vietnam.
>> You you don't think there's any
persecution in Afghanistan or North
Korea?
>> No. Or the other thing is do a little
deal with Australia and they've got an
island in the Pacific.
Australia doesn't have the illegal
immigrant problem because as soon as
they get there, they're put onto that
>> Yeah. Which which we don't have,
unfortunately. We don't have an island.
>> We could do a we could do a deal with
Australia and say, can we send all our
people to there and they can spend the
rest of their life in an island in the
Pacific?
>> The rest of their lives. What? even if
their asylum application is found to be
absolutely legitimate and they have
family here perhaps and they they speak
English or they have other ties to this
country.
>> No, no, that doesn't come into it. Um
because what the Australians do when
they go on to the island in the Pacific,
they're offered you can get a free trip
back to where you came from or you can
get a free trip to anywhere in the world
that will take
>> and and if they are escaping the Taliban
or another authoritarian regime which is
making threats to their and their
family's life, they're not going to want
to go back to where they came from, are
they? They're not going to be able to go
back to where they came from.
>> Yeah, but that's not our problem.
Well, refugees are the world's problem.
Despite what you might have read, Mvin,
we don't even take our share. Very few
people comparatively to places like
Greece will even try and make it to
British shores.
>> You're saying that, but in Germany after
Merkel let a million people in,
murderers, rapists, and whatever. Um, in
Germany now at the borders they actually
turn back people that they don't want to
come in from Austria because Austria is
a safe country. They say you can't come
to Germany.
>> That's not feasible long term, is it?
According to the refugee Okay, Mvin,
thank you for your call. I should say
according to the refugee convention and
to international law which we all abide
by, people do not have to settle in the
first safe country that they can find.
Many many refugees do take that option
but a smaller proportion choose to go on
to other countries for reasons that they
they might feel an affiliation with
Britain. They may speak English. They
may have family here, but nothing
compels them legally to stay in the
first safe country that they reach. And
if you think about it for more than 3
seconds, if you get off Facebook and
maybe just have a think with your brain,
you will realize how unfeasible it is to
expect any one country to house the
world's refugees.
>> I was kind of moved to call because of
the previous caller. Just the cruelty
sort of took my breath away. I think um
you know I I have I haven't had internet
for the last couple of weeks. I've been
listening to a lot of LBC and what I
kind of gather if I was to sort of, you
know, do a study is that what most
people in this country want is, you
know, the best for themselves and their
family. And yet they can't confer that
level of humanity upon other people,
maybe if they're strangers or if
they're, you know, come across on a
boat, whatever, to realize, you know,
even the sort of dismissive, sneering
economic migrants, and you think, well,
maybe they're coming from poverty, maybe
they want that for, you know, I it just
the framing of it is just um quite
cruel. And I just think, you know,
people pride here themselves here on on
the history of compassion towards
refugees. And but I think if the Kinder
transport were to happen today, people
would be calling LBC complaining about
those grasping whiny Jewish brats who
were coming over here our resources.
>> Well, I mean I mean two things that that
first of all, there's a reason it was
the Kinder Transport. It's their Jewish
parents were not allowed to come with
them. And secondly, there were people at
the time there there were columnists at
the time who were using the kind of
language that you describe. And this is
what I mean when I say we just we only
ever seem to be able to see people's
humanity in retrospect. And I don't know
how we fix that issue.
>> Yeah. Not all of us. And I think that's
the thing to try and remember as well is
that sometimes, you know, you get a call
like that or you read, you know, some of
the horrible, most inflammatory
newspaper columnists or hear the most
awful things from the populist
politicians. And I think you kind of we
get a skewed perspective on, you know,
how people think. And I think a lot of
us do care and still see other people as
people. And you know, of course, I do
accept that there are legitimate issues
with the processing and with, you know,
there are strains on resources. So, I'm
not trying to belittle any sort of
legitimate concerns, but the whole
framing of it, the language of invasion,
calling people illegals, it's so
dehumanizing and it and it's like it's
can we not learn from our very recent
history of, you know, this this it just
leads to no good and not good for our
society.
>> Thanks to the stupidity of previous
governments, um we've had lots of people
arrive. I'm not saying that's a bad
thing because you'll always need some
immigration in the country.
>> Now the problem is is they've not
invested in public services and now
there is such a creaking strain on them
that we are at the point where we cannot
cope and we have to deal with the here
and now regardless of what happens in
the past. That's where we're at. So my
idea is this to stop us having to put
the drawbridge up all together forever.
I think we need a two to threeyear fixed
suspension on immigration until such
time as the money that goes on the
asylum issue goes into public services
so that we can take more people on.
>> Okay. I I think the problem with that
idea is that there's a conflation of two
different things. So you've got
immigration which includes legal
immigration, people coming across on a
valid visa, etc. which which many asylum
seekers do as well come across on a
valid visa. And then you've got
immigration which takes place via
illegal means which is more likely to be
asylum seekers who are more likely to
come across on small boat. Now you you
could suspend all legal immigration. I
mean it would be a headache but you
could feasibly do that. You cannot stop
people from trying to enter this country
across the channel. It's not it's not a
possible thing to do
>> unless you opened up a safe and legal
route for them. That's the only way
really.
>> You would. Yes, I agree. But the problem
is is if you say if you enter the
country illegally for the next 3 years,
there will be no citizenship, no
benefits, no nothing. I know it's harsh,
but we've got to a stage where we cannot
afford to keep taking numbers in. I know
it's cruel. I'm not saying forever. I'm
really not. But the alternative is we
will leave the ECR altogether and this
will be a total.
>> But do you know how many people are
currently waiting for their asylum
application to be protest processed?
>> Yes, it's a big number. I think it's
about 100,000 I believe if I'm not
mistaken.
>> It's about 32,000.
>> Oh, okay. My apologies. Okay.
>> So, it's it's not even enough to fill a
football stadium. Yeah, you if you were
able to magically make those people
disappear overnight, I his cost to the
taxpayer is about 3 billion per year.
That's not an insignificant amount of
money. It's a large amount of money, but
it wouldn't fix all of our public
services overnight.
>> No, it wouldn't. But we've got to start
somewhere. There aren't the public
services to keep going. And we've not
got the housing. Now, this migrant hotel
situation is going to be shooting
themselves in the foot for people who
are advocating this situation because
>> but I don't think anyone is I don't
think anyone's advocating for migrant
hotels or asylum saying getting rid of
them because people are saying we don't
want them in our towns. Well, imagine
how they're going to feel when they're
in a house occupation in their street.
It's going to inflame tensions even
further. I'm not sure whether that is
the case because when you have when you
put people in housing the the argument
then becomes well there there are lots
of people who need houses who are
British born that would be the argument
right but but people would be more
evenly distributed throughout
communities I understand why you
wouldn't necessarily want 200 young
bored men
>> in your town or village I do get that. I
don't think their color or their where
they've come from has anything to do
with it whatsoever, but I do understand
that concern. Whereas, if it's one
family in your street, that's a
different proposition entirely, isn't
it?
>> But we're talking houses in multiple
occupations. So, it's just microscaling
the issue that people have out there. A
lot of people have, isn't it?
>> Well, it's not families, is it? It's
like individual young males for the most
part. That's an absolute fact.
>> But if but if you opened up safe and
legal routes, then it would be entire
families. The reason that men are coming
over is because they consider themselves
to be strong enough to make that
perilous journey.